Historic San Diego Trip Has Been Canceled
Historic San Diego Trip Has Been Canceled
This information was reported on the internet about an Amtrak Surfliner crew crossing one of the bridges on the San Diego Northern's line to San Diego. The very same line that the 3751 would have used to get to San Diego on the now canceled excursion for May, 2004. This bridge was not the bridge that was previously identified as a problem for the 3751 by the SDN - this is another of many timber bridges slated to be rebuilt over the next decade by the SDN.
Date: 02/25/04 18:15
Pacific Surfliner Service Disruption, East of San Juan Capistrano, CA.
Pacific Surfliner service was disrupted to inspect the wooden trestle bridge, at MP 208.6/San Onofre, on the San Diego Subdivision, of the San Diego Northern Railroad, 11 miles east of San Juan Capistrano, after a train crew passing over the bridge earlier in the day, reported possible track movement. This resulted in a temporary closure of the bridge, for emergency repairs. The bridge was found to have a failed dump bent cap, part of the cross structure on the bank of the river. Failure of this component places excessive stress on the cap on the opposite side.
As a result, Train 590(24) was terminated at Irvine, with a bus bridge for passengers continuing south to San Diego. The equipment from Train 590(24) was turned at Irvine to become Train 595(24). Passengers from San Diego and San Juan Capistrano were bussed to Irvine. Train 796(24) was advanced up to the bridge and then held for completion of the bridge work.
March 3, 2004
Late in January of 2004 the SBRHS was contacted by Mark Plotnikiewicz of Simon Wong Engineering who was asked to review the move of 3751 over NCTD’s (North County Transit District, controling entity of the San Diego Northern or Coaster) structures. In order to review the loading, Mr. Plotnikiewicz needed the axle spacing as well as the axle loading of both the locomotive and the tender.
To understand further the chain of events we go back to notes from the NCTD's board meeting from October 16th, 2003 -
"Railroad bridge 230.6 is a 196 foot long timber trestle spanning the Agua Hedionda Lagoon in south Carlsbad. In July of 2003, the board awarded a contract to John S. Meek Company, the lowest responsive and responsible bidder, to perform previously specified pile repairs to this bridge as well as two other railroad bridges on the right-of-way. The total value of that contract was $647,450.
While conducting the repair work on bridge 230.6, the contractor discovered conditions in the piles to be repaired which were far worse than previously identified. The NCTD's previous above and underwater investigation of these piles had not identified the degree of pile decay on four (4) piles, due to much of the decay being below the mud level of the lagoon and therefore extremely difficult to observe.
The original repair methodology was to "post" piles, meaning that the defective part is cut out and replaced with good timber. However, due to the advanced state of decay on these four piles, our consulting engineers have now determined that we must replace the four bad piles with completely new material. This involves different equipment and personnel to complete this job."
To make a long story short, the NCTD feels there is a risk involved in allowing the 3751 over this and other bridges on the line because it is significantly heavier than the Amtrak and Coaster equipment that is regularly using these bridges. Unfortunately the NCTD does not have the money to replace these and other piles along the line at this time. While the wood bridges along the right-of-way regularly supported 3751 class and even heavier 2900 class 4-8-4's in the 1950's, these engines are too heavy for bridges that have sustained such levels of decay. Check the Specifications page for axle loadings of 3751.
From The President (February 19, 2004) -
Jim Campbell, Wolf Fengler and I attended a meeting at San Diego Northern Railroad in Oceanside regarding the proposed May San Diego excursion. Hal Lewis and Neil Carlson of the CCRC were in attendance as well. The main issue in running the 3751 to San Diego is the bridges beyond Oceanside.
The SDN MOW Manager and a Civil Consulting Engineer found that because of the condition of the bridges and the weight of the 3751 that a passage on SDN to San Diego would not be possible. Accordingly, Hal and Neil had to cancel the May trip.
On behalf of the SBRHS and all of our great supporters and volunteers, I want to personally thank Hal and the CCRC for all the hard work and long hours they have put in trying to make this work. I also don't want to forget the dedicated volunteers of the SBRHS who work every weekend whether we run or not.
Thank you all for the support!
Bob Kittel
February 19, 2004
The latest word regarding the trip to San Diego is "please be patient a few more weeks". The Central Coast Chapter has been working extremely hard since last fall, and the insurance problems that the CCC and the SBRHS (as well as the majority of the industry) experienced then have been resolved at this point. So, provided there are no other problems - dates, schedules & ticket prices for this historic return of steam locomotion to the San Diego Depot should be announced within 30 days or so. There could also be announcements of other trips and appearances of 3751 at that time as well!
Thanks for your patience and continued support of 3751 and the Central Coast Chapter.
January 26, 2004
With regards to the trip to San Diego - the Central Coast Chapter has been attempting to reorganize the trip and run it on October 5. The thought was that maybe giving some extra time might help things shake out a bit. The CCC was working with a new insurance connection and the feelings were that it might just work. But, it has not and last night (July 30) both organizations, the CCC and SBRHS, pulled the plug on the push for October - but are keeping the push going for possibly May of next year. More info to follow.
I know that it has been a hard road trying to get insurance for this trip, and we are glad to have a real bulldog (Hal Lewis and CCC) at the helm. Some people have also questioned why the 261 could run a trip in October and we can't get the insurance. I can only guess because Steve Sandburg hasn't devulged his secret - but I suspect he is utilizing the tail end of a year long policy, written a year ago when the insurance was available.
The SBRHS and others in the industry feel that the insurance industry will eventually heal itself within a few years - and begin writing those policies we require to operate 3751 on an Amtrak trip. We'll keep the latest information available on this website, thanks for all your support!
July 31, 2003
The SBRHS has been told by the organizers of this event (Central Coast Chapter) that they are cancelling plans for the trip to San Diego on September 21, 2003 using steam locomotive 3751. The SBRHS wishes to thank those hard working volunteers in the CCC who have spent months trying to make this event happen, especially Hal Lewis - who is no stranger to organizing excursions with steam locomotives. The SBRHS would also like to recognize all those at Amtrak who have also put forth a great effort to make this happen.
Hal's explaination of the difficulties and the reason for pulling the plug were posted on the internet on July 6, 2003, and were as follows -
"Amtrak requires two insurance policies for a trip like the proposed (but now cancelled) 3751 trip to San Diego. First, there is a "property insurance" policy which protects Amtrak in case something happens to the engine. We (Central Coast) worked out a deal with SBRHS to get around that one. Second, there is a liability insurance policy. This protects Amtrak, Central Coast, SBRHS, BNSF, etc in case of a liability related lawsuit (ie coffee too hot or too cold). It provides an important measure of protection for the above organizations by having a lawyer from the insurance company at the negotiating table or in court. We cancelled the 3751 trip because we, and Amtrak, simply could not get liability coverage. Without this policy, the assets of Central Coast and SBRHS and their officers are at risk in case of a lawsuit. None of us want to spend the rest of our days living under a freeway overpass. We will keep trying in hopes of doing the trip next spring.
Hal Lewis, Central Coast Chapter
"The San Diego trip has been officially cancelled. The reason is that a liability insurance package could not be found. This had nothing to do with premium price, the insurance was simply not available. Amtrak tried in vain this last week to find a company to carry the insurance, and although they went to six different carriers they did not succeed. Amtrak wanted this trip to happen, enough to suggest that we could run without liability. As Hal Lewis of Central Coast Chapter said, if something happened we would all be living under a freeway bridge somewhere. This is simply not acceptable. We will pare the Saturday work sessions down to 2 a month so everyone can enjoy the summer."
July 7, 2003
